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Offline sami  
#1 Posted : Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:31:57 PM(UTC)
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I saw the movie on sept 21st about a month and a half ago and right now the scenes that I remember the most are :

1- The initial scene where Joaquin is having sex with a sand made woman- It was a very unsettling !

2- The interrogation scene where Freddie is not supposed to blink .. I mean how did he fucking do that ? Have u tried not blinking for a while ? How far can u get?? !! Besides, that scene is spectacular .

3- The naked women scene - another unexpected thing,the way it was done .. It made me see how women ' sexuality was repressed in order to be "good girls".

4- The bike scene - epic !!!

5- The final scene when Freddie comes back to Dodd, their dialogue and Freddie's face .. He's smiling and in a matter of seconds he is crying and laughing again. It breaks your heart !!!!


Other scenes come to mind but these ones do more prominently !

Edited by user Sunday, November 4, 2012 1:18:47 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline joy  
#2 Posted : Friday, November 9, 2012 7:28:55 AM(UTC)
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I saw the film on November 7th in 70mm.

I’ve been thinking about how to write about the film. There’s just so much and I don’t know where to start exactly. I know that I can’t write a review or critique because that’s not me. I suppose I could if I tried but I didn’t watch the film like that. So, I think I’ll just free-flow with my thoughts but start here with your scenes, Sami.

I have to say, that I’m actually wondering if I saw the same film as a lot of other people did…

I don’t understand why people would walk out of the film: I don’t think anyone did at my screening. Was it the naked ladies? Well, hallefuckinglujah! How refreshing to see women of all shapes, sizes and ages naked. And pubic hair too! Lots of it! I don’t know PTA’s thought processes on this scene but the period the film is set in, I imagine shaved pubes wouldn’t have been the norm, so it makes sense to have full bushes. (I was really impressed with the period details in the film – but more of that later.) Give the Oscar to the women!!

Did you notice what Peggy was doing in that scene?

Thinking about the scene now I’m imagining how much fun PSH had filming it. I don’t know him, obviously, and I’m sure that he is very professional about these things, but he seems like he’s the kind of guy who would just be thrilled to bits to dance and sing with naked ladies. I don’t mean in a lewd way; just revelling in the deliciousness of it all. Haha. Maybe that’s why he took the job. Huh

The other scenes with the naked women – the one in the dark room and the final love scene – were refreshing too. They had flesh! Maybe that was another detail of the period, I don’t know, but it was nice to see.

Quote:

The initial scene where Joaquin is having sex with a sand made woman- It was a very unsettling !

Was Joaquin having sex with a sand-made woman? I thought it was Freddie. Wink Yes, it was disconcerting, but it fitted with his character at that time. He is damaged and this scene is a reflection of that, I think.

Quote:
The interrogation scene where Freddie is not supposed to blink .. I mean how did he fucking do that ? Have u tried not blinking for a while ? How far can u get?? !! Besides, that scene is spectacular .

Yes, I have, just now. I lasted about 20 seconds. I loved this scene. Incredible. Very funny too. Intense, tantric-sex style interrogation and then a post-coital cigarette. Laugh And the fart! Do something unexpected. Laugh I laughed out loud! Really. I think I was the only person who did..at least in the section of the cinema where I was sitting. It was a sweet moment for me because I was laughing along with Freddie but also with Joaquin! Laugh It was at this point I realised that I am Freddie too! Laugh

Quote:
The bike scene - epic !!!

Yeah! Don’t you just want to do that sometimes? Get on a bike and just ride for miles with the wind in your hair?

Quote:
The final scene when Freddie comes back to Dodd, their dialogue and Freddie's face .. He's smiling and in a matter of seconds he is crying and laughing again. It breaks your heart !!!!

I loved this scene too. Dodd singing ‘Slow Boat to China’ to Freddie. On the one hand it is a love song but it also felt like a lullaby. As well as the sexual undercurrents in Dodd & Freddie’s relationship I thought there was a parent/child relationship going on too. I need to see the film again to be sure but I wondered if Freddie was Oedipal or there was something warped in his relationship with his mother as well as other women. That’s why I thought it sounded like a lullaby. It’s what mothers do to their children, isn’t it? And the image of the sand-woman’s breast at the end too. Breast-milk. Nourishment. Nurturing.


There were lots of images in the film I really liked but I’ll get to those later as well as other things. I can’t find the words yet for Joaquin’s performance. At the moment it’s still a presence.

Edited by user Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:48:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Changed a word

Offline joy  
#3 Posted : Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:10:54 AM(UTC)
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Was it just me, or were a lot of the scenes filmed at an angle? From below? I couldn’t figure out sometimes if it was the position of the screen, how I was sitting or if that’s how it was filmed. Slightly unsettling. And the water! Just totally unexpected both times. Such a fantastic colour with the white foam and the water’s movement. I’d love a photo of that. The scene with Freddie walking towards lights; hazy glows of circles; oranges, reds, yellows. And when we saw the boat for the first time. Freddie walking front of screen with the boat in the background. I loved those images of the boat. All yellows and golds illuminated in the night darkness. The party on the top tier of the boat and the two figures on the bottom tier. Was it Dodd and Peggy? I can’t recall. They were having a discussion whilst the party was going on upstairs. I really liked that split image. The boat leaving the harbour...the colours, great image. There was another split image I liked too. I think it was Freddie’s boat – left half the deck and rails, right half the sea with that fantastic colour and the foam. Brilliant! I liked that many of the scenes were dual. The main scene going on but a doorway with another scene going on in the background too: a party; people coming and going; discussions; people huddled. It seemed to be a theme in the film. Doorways, windows. Reds & blues too. There was a shot of a big house and the group had arrived in two cars which were parked at front but with a gap between them, like another entrance. Really liked that scene. I jumped and winced when Freddie bumped into the table in the window/wall scene. Ouch! I felt that! And when he was in the cell thrashing about. That really must have hurt! What does Joaquin do to generate so much anger that he can hurt himself like that? I mean, that looked like it really would have hurt! Or kick a toilet to smithereens? Or did the props people crack it first, fill the joins in and thus making it easier? I didn’t wonder that at the time though: at the time, my inner pedant thought *why is there no water spouting from the smashed toilet?* Just a breeze of a thought. Then, when all the anger had subsided, Dodd takes a post-coital piss and Freddie can’t because he’s kicked the toilet to bits! I thought that part was funny. Laugh

I don’t get Joaquin being compared to Marlon Brando in this film. Maybe I haven’t seen enough Brando films (very likely). Personally, I thought of Frank Sinatra. I don’t mean Joaquin was impersonating FS or that there was a copy-cat similarity of styles; just that I thought of FS a few times, probably also brought on by the period setting and Joaquin’s weight loss. Have you seen ‘The Man with the Golden Arm’? 'From Here to Eternity'? ‘Anchor’s Aweigh’?

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You know, I don’t think there’s anything I can say about Joaquin’s performance to match all the reviews that have praised him. All the words in the world to describe his Oscar-worthy performance. I’ve hardly read any reviews but I’ve read around the buzz and most of it is lauding him so I guess the reviews are too. I don't want him to go anywhere near the Oscars (in my dreams he'll stay at home with his clarinet!) but he's bound to be nominated and might even win too. Maybe that's what it will take to convince him that he's not crap.

Anyway, I only know how I felt, but I don’t know if you can really understand how I felt about Joaquin’s performance if I say – he was sooooo good. Incredible. I was filled with admiration throughout the whole film. I am so proud of him. I’m a fan, so I would say those things (with all the bells & whistles to accompany) wouldn’t I? Well no. It's all inside, as a feeling.







Offline sami  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:49:41 PM(UTC)
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Hi Joy,

I can't respond to all your comments because t would take me too long but just on the top of my mind I wanted to tell you,regarding the nudity scene , PTA said he really enjoyed filming that scene and that he likes seeing women in different shapes and sizes , different bodies . I was trying to give the interview but I just lost it ! What strikes me the most is how traditionally women have had to be like grown up little girls. U see it in the innocent gestures they make . When u see them move naked in such a way it becomes really disturbing . Peggy was sitting down in that scene ..

I don't think Dodd is on love with Freddie. He used him. He was expecting sth in exchange. Nobody gives anything for free in this world ...

I love the boat scene too. It feels so real. When Freddie is approaching .. The music ,the sounds, the lights ..

The cell scene is good but didn't impress me. As an actor I don't think it's that hard to represent anger and yell, I'd think subtle things are harder ! Dodd taking a piss was disgusting .

What else?

I'm with u. I wish he'd get an Oscar because he deserves it.its the performance of the millenium if u ask me !

Edited by user Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:21:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline sami  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:23:36 PM(UTC)
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I changed the tail about 3 times!! I m trying to not give opinion, not give advice , and not interpret one thing or another. Im just zen now Laugh
Offline sami  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:09:34 AM(UTC)
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I was just folding my laundry and my mind started wandering.. I was thinking about the comment I made about the cell and realised , as u said Joy, the pain that Joaquin must have gone through to play that scene, not only physically but emotionally. And actually throughout the movie , u can feel the pain all the time . Joaquin goes the furthest to become the characters. You take it for granted ... but when you think about it , wOw !!
I agree with the LA Times, "all that we ask us that he keeps coming back " the rest is up to him. He can do whatever he wants, skip the "niceties" he earned it.
Offline joy  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:45:37 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
I can't respond to all your comments because t would take me too long but just on the top of my mind I wanted to tell you,regarding the nudity scene , PTA said he really enjoyed filming that scene and that he likes seeing women in different shapes and sizes , different bodies . I was trying to give the interview but I just lost it ! What strikes me the most is how traditionally women have had to be like grown up little girls. U see it in the innocent gestures they make . When u see them move naked in such a way it becomes really disturbing . Peggy was sitting down in that scene ..

Thanks for the info from PTA, Sami. Your comments about the women....I didn’t see it like that. I thought the dancing went with the song (which is an old drinking song I think) but maybe I’ll see it differently next time. Today, we have women who might dance like ‘women’ but they have no pubic hair, like little girls, so what that says about us I don't know. But there are all kinds of women in the world - give it some for diversity!

Peggy was sitting down and clapping but she was not really involved in the singing and dancing. She was looking straight out at the audience. The viewer in the cinema. It was quite a definite look at the viewer through that whole scene.

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I don't think Dodd is on love with Freddie. He used him. He was expecting sth in exchange. Nobody gives anything for free in this world ...

Admin lets us use this forum for free. Smile
Quote:

Dodd taking a piss was disgusting .

Did you think any of the film was funny? I thought quite a lot of it was. Maybe it's me. Huh

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I'm with u. I wish he'd get an Oscar because he deserves it

I didn’t say that I wished Joaquin would get an Oscar. His performance is enough for me. If Joaquin does get the Oscar and he's happy with it, then I'm happy for him too.

About the pain....I know! He must have suffered some terrible bruising. I really did wince at times. Ouch!!
Offline sami  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:31:18 PM(UTC)
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joy wrote:

Thanks for the info from PTA, Sami. Your comments about the women....I didn’t see it like that. I thought the dancing went with the song (which is an old drinking song I think) but maybe I’ll see it differently next time. Today, we have women who might dance like ‘women’ but they have no pubic hair, like little girls, so what that says about us I don't know. But there are all kinds of women in the world - give it some for diversity!!


I think what PTA was trying to accomplish was 1st to see women through Freddie's eyes , that is women = pussies , and 2nd to show the repressive nature of the cult. "Men are not animals" Dodd is forcing himself to behave like a little innocent gnom dancing with fairies Laugh but the fairies are sensual grown women playing their part on the show. And he is not made of stone either , as we can see, ehem afterwards LOL

Offline joy  
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:31:36 AM(UTC)
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sami wrote:
Dodd is forcing himself to behave like a little innocent gnom dancing with fairies Laugh

I’m looking forward to seeing this scene again because I didn’t think of gnomes and fairies before. Laugh Yeah, 'men are not animals' was another theme in the film.

Freddie’s an interesting character. Obsessed with sex but actually, we never really see him getting any until the last scene. The sand woman is unreal and out of all proportion, he’s clothed and then after simulating sex has a violent reaction to it. He masturbates into the sea. He has an encounter in a darkroom but nothing happens. He’s drawn to the woman’s belly. She’s disappointed on the date later because Freddie falls asleep. He gets a sweet kiss from a girlfriend. He gets his leg fondled by the daughter. In the last scene we see him in bed with a real woman. A different experience from the encounter withn the sand woman. Have I forgotten anything? Is he healed from the violence of the opening scene? I still think, at this point, there’s a mother complex with Freddie, but I’m also wondering if he’s a virgin? Dunno. Just realised that as well as all the gathered groups of people throughout the film the sand woman scene takes place with a group of people watching. Is there any significance to this? Dunno.

sami wrote:
And he is not made of stone either , as we can see, ehem afterwards LOL

BigGrin Do you mean the scene with Dodd and Peggy in the bathroom? What’s your take on that scene? Dodd couldn’t have sex with his wife because she is pregnant but was it Peggy who was aroused first or Dodd? Who was he thinking of, if anyone? The look on Peggy’s face afterwards was…..disgusted? Contemptuous? Had she never heard him come like that before and was wondering why he did? Is there an award for best film orgasm? Laugh



I loved the scenes at the department store when Freddie’s a photographer. The colours and fabric of the dress worn by the model. Vibrant and lush. The attention to detail in the store! What can I say? I like this stuff. The whole film was lushious! And when the executive guy comes in for a photo and Freddie asks him if it’s for his wife. Yes. So Freddie starts to adjust the lamps closer to the guy’s face to make him sweat and hot under the collar. Smouldering. Laugh Perfect photo for a husband to give to his wife in Freddie’s eyes. Funny and intense. And yet more bumps and bruises for Joaquin!
Offline sami  
#10 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:43:12 PM(UTC)
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joy wrote:
sami wrote:
Dodd is forcing himself to behave like a little innocent gnom dancing with fairies Laugh

I’m looking forward to seeing this scene again because I didn’t think of gnomes and fairies before. Laugh Yeah, 'men are not animals' was another theme in the film.

We don't have to see the same thing! It's just do clear to me this way but that's my filter ...

joy wrote:
In the last scene we see him in bed with a real woman. A different experience from the encounter withn the sand woman. Have I forgotten anything? Is he healed from the violence of the opening scene?

I think he is! I guess Dodd did heal him in a way but not because of the theories he had in mind but because he cared about Freddie. I think what changed Freddie is that for the first time in his life someone cared about him and lobed him. He grew up by himself , probably neglected, as many children did by that time. Dodd was like a father figure. So at the end of the movie Freddue has something to give.. and u can see how he tells the girls " don't blink, bla bla "

joy wrote:
I still think, at this point, there’s a mother complex with Freddie, but I’m also wondering if he’s a virgin? Dunno. Just realised that as well as all the gathered groups of people throughout the film the sand woman scene takes place with a group of people watching. Is there any significance to this? Dunno.

Maybe that's when he raped his aunty.

joy wrote:

BigGrin Do you mean the scene with Dodd and Peggy in the bathroom? What’s your take on that scene? Dodd couldn’t have sex with his wife because she is pregnant but was it Peggy who was aroused first or Dodd? Who was he thinking of, if anyone? The look on Peggy’s face afterwards was…..disgusted? Contemptuous? Had she never heard him come like that before and was wondering why he did? Is there an award for best film orgasm? Laugh

I don't know what to think of that scene but Amy Adams I brilliant . When she cleans and dries her hand after the job ..the whole thing is gross. Not erotic at all . It's yucky yucky yucky !
It reminds me One time iwas at a party so we here in Europe, no the US, and it was late, it was a rock concert outdoors, there was a crowd of ppl and suddenly I see a homeless lying on the floor , completely wasted, jerking it off , right there in front if everyone. I was 16 , it was the first time I prob saw this and I was grossed out. This is the kind of feeling I get of that scene. Like that bum on the floor. Not sexy at all .

The sex scenes are all like that in this movie there's no erotica, .. Funny ! Do u think ppl had sex like this 50 or 60 years ago
? After all this was before the sexual revolution ..

joy wrote:
loved the scenes at the department store when Freddie’s a photographer. The colours and fabric of the dress worn by the model. Vibrant and lush. The attention to detail in the store! What can I say? I like this stuff. The whole film was lushious! And when the executive guy comes in for a photo and Freddie asks him if it’s for his wife. Yes. So Freddie starts to adjust the lamps closer to the guy’s face to make him sweat and hot under the collar. Smouldering. Laugh Perfect photo for a husband to give to his wife in Freddie’s eyes. Funny and intense. And yet more bumps and bruises for Joaquin!


I agree with you the mall scenes are so gorgeous and so realistic. It's time traveling at its best. The light scene is really funny !!

Edited by user Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:48:45 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline joy  
#11 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2012 8:04:27 AM(UTC)
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sami wrote:
I think he is! I guess Dodd did heal him in a way but not because of the theories he had in mind but because he cared about Freddie. I think what changed Freddie is that for the first time in his life someone cared about him and lobed him. He grew up by himself , probably neglected, as many children did by that time. Dodd was like a father figure. So at the end of the movie Freddue has something to give.. and u can see how he tells the girls " don't blink, bla bla "

I kind of missed what Freddie was saying in the final scene but he seemed to be calmer; less troubled. Yes, I think what Freddie found with Dodd was a human connection; being cared for and loved. The scene when Freddie gets out of jail and Dodd comes down the steps to meet him at the house. They’re so happy to see each other, rolling around on the grass. And when Dodd goes after Freddie when he rides off on the bike. PTA has said that the film is a love story and I did get that. Maybe Freddie never did have that feeling of being valued. Being thought of as a human? And I think you’re right; he did have something to give towards the end. He didn’t give it to Dodd though, did he? There are so many different layers to this story!

sami wrote:
Maybe that's when he raped his aunty.

Oh! I’d forgotten about that! I don’t think we saw that take place did we? Some things probably passed me by because I was absorbed in the cinematography a lot of the time. I’m sure when I see the film again I’ll notice lots of things I missed first time around.

sami wrote:
I don't know what to think of that scene but Amy Adams I brilliant . When she cleans and dries her hand after the job ..the whole thing is gross. Not erotic at all . It's yucky yucky yucky !It reminds me One time iwas at a party so we here in Europe, no the US, and it was late, it was a rock concert outdoors, there was a crowd of ppl and suddenly I see a homeless lying on the floor , completely wasted, jerking it off , right there in front if everyone. I was 16 , it was the first time I prob saw this and I was grossed out. This is the kind of feeling I get of that scene. Like that bum on the floor. Not sexy at all .

I think that would have grossed me out too! I wouldn’t say the scene was sexy either, but that was a good film orgasm. It was all a bit clinical really and I had an intellectual rather than a sensual reaction to it.

sami wrote:
The sex scenes are all like that in this movie there's no erotica, ..

I think the final sex scene was the only one with any tenderness or intimacy in it but it was a snapshot of a scene really. We don’t know how Freddie came to be there or what happened after she laughed and hugged him.

sami wrote:
Do u think ppl had sex like this 50 or 60 years ago
? After all this was before the sexual revolution ..

How long have you got? Lol. I think the sexual revolution was as much about a change of attitude to sexual behaviour rather than just about that everyone started to have a different kind of sex. I think all kinds of sex was going on back then including, probably, the kind of sex seen in ‘The Master’. The way sex is depicted in the media, cinema, etc, nowadays has definitely changed from back in those days. Off the top of my head, what kind of sex do you think the characters played by Deborah Kerr & Burt Lancaster in ‘From Here to Eternity’ (1953) had after kissing in the surf? Or Cary Grant and Eva Marie Saint’s characters, holed up in train carriage, in ‘North By Northwest’? (1959). Harvey Lawrence and Simone Signoret in the British film ‘Room at the Top’? (1956). I think we can safely say that none of it was catholic. Smile It’s more in your face now. More explicit. More erotic? Can be. But it depends on what you consider to be erotic, I guess.
Offline sami  
#12 Posted : Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:48:31 AM(UTC)
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joy wrote:
The scene when Freddie gets out of jail and Dodd comes down the steps to meet him at the house. They’re so happy to see each other, rolling around on the grass. And when Dodd goes after Freddie when he rides off on the bike. PTA has said that the film is a love story and I did get that. Maybe Freddie never did have that feeling of being valued. Being thought of as a human?


Nice !

joy wrote:
And I think you’re right; he did have something to give towards the end. He didn’t give it to Dodd though, did he? There are so many different layers to this story!



He couldn't love Dodd because he didn't let him. Well, I think it was Peggy. Remember the final scene on the desk? Freddie is just happy to see them. They are his friends, his family. Dodd is really moved. They asked him: "so why do you come back?" As if there had to be a reason. As if he only could come back if he gave into the Cause.. But he said " I can do anything, I can take pictures!" He just wants to be around them. But then Peggy is really offended by this. She doesn't understand love, She thinks he is a drunk nobody.And that's when she leaves the room. I think that Dodd would have let it slide, but Peggy is really strict with him. Even more than he is with the Cause, and he created it. So she really controls Dodd. He isn't free to love Freddie back.



joy wrote:
I think that would have grossed me out too! I wouldn’t say the scene was sexy either, but that was a good film orgasm. It was all a bit clinical really and I had an intellectual rather than a sensual reaction to it.

Yes, that scene is amazing. It caught me by surprise too. First there is not intimacy between them two so it comes as a shock ! I think again it shows how the one controlling Dodd is Peggy. She doesn't seem to be interested in him sexually. She masturbates him as she could be peeling a carrot. She would just needs to add: "you asshole" afterwards. Its a bit strange altogether !


joy wrote:
I think the final sex scene was the only one with any tenderness or intimacy in it but it was a snapshot of a scene really. We don’t know how Freddie came to be there or what happened after she laughed and hugged him.


It seems like he is happy and free. Somehow, relieved of his burden?


joy wrote:
How long have you got? Lol. I think the sexual revolution was as much about a change of attitude to sexual behaviour rather than just about that everyone started to have a different kind of sex. I think all kinds of sex was going on back then including, probably, the kind of sex seen in ‘The Master’. The way sex is depicted in the media, cinema, etc, nowadays has definitely changed from back in those days. Off the top of my head, what kind of sex do you think the characters played by Deborah Kerr & Burt Lancaster in ‘From Here to Eternity’ (1953) had after kissing in the surf? Or Cary Grant and Eva Marie Saint’s characters, holed up in train carriage, in ‘North By Northwest’? (1959). Harvey Lawrence and Simone Signoret in the British film ‘Room at the Top’? (1956). I think we can safely say that none of it was catholic. Smile It’s more in your face now. More explicit. More erotic? Can be. But it depends on what you consider to be erotic, I guess.


Oh, I see what you mean now. It's just so raw in this movie, but your'e right . It doesn't mean it had to be the only way back then When I think with North by Northwest, one of my fave classics !

BTW, ADmin must have seen the movie by now !


Edited by user Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:54:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline sami  
#13 Posted : Saturday, November 17, 2012 9:56:03 AM(UTC)
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"But it depends on what you consider to be erotic, I guess. "

Yes, Im sorry about that. I did realise afterwards that I was imposing my own standards by statng it wasn't erotic. There is not a right way when it comes to this , everybody is a different "animal" Laugh
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#14 Posted : Saturday, November 17, 2012 9:52:01 PM(UTC)
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Some great comments and observations there guys! BigGrin Nice to be able to finally read them!

I'm going to ponder the film for a while longer before responding.

However, i would say that i thought the Lancaster/Freddie relationship was more like a brotherly love... similar to "Of Mice and Men".
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#15 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:37:53 AM(UTC)
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I'd also say that i preferred the "Rorschach test" scene that was used in the teaser trailer to the one actually used in the film:


Looking forward to the 20 minutes of extras that's going to be on the DVD.

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Offline admin  
#16 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:47:20 AM(UTC)
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Sami,

"Dodd taking a piss was disgusting ." - I must have missed this part? When did that happen?
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#17 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2012 6:33:06 AM(UTC)
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That clip was certainly easier to hear than the one used in the film, Admin. Thank you. Smile

admin wrote:
However, i would say that i thought the Lancaster/Freddie relationship was more like a brotherly love... similar to "Of Mice and Men".

Brotherly love…..didn’t think of that and haven’t read the book or seen the film, so look forward to reading more of your impressions.

sami wrote:
He couldn't love Dodd because he didn't let him. Well, I think it was Peggy. Remember the final scene on the desk? Freddie is just happy to see them. They are his friends, his family. Dodd is really moved. They asked him: "so why do you come back?" As if there had to be a reason. As if he only could come back if he gave into the Cause.. But he said " I can do anything, I can take pictures!" He just wants to be around them. But then Peggy is really offended by this. She doesn't understand love, She thinks he is a drunk nobody.And that's when she leaves the room. I think that Dodd would have let it slide, but Peggy is really strict with him. Even more than he is with the Cause, and he created it. So she really controls Dodd. He isn't free to love Freddie back.

I don’t remember much about this scene other than Freddie’s face and Dodd singing to him. I do think Peggy had some kind of controlling influence over Dodd – remember the scene where he’s typing and she’s sitting on the bed speaking feverishly…..Dodd seemed to be typing up what she was saying? Her role in the Cause was bigger and more influential than it appears I think. I wonder if Peggy felt threatened by Freddie & Dodd’s relationship? That somehow it would undermine her? In this scene you mention, Dodd says something to Freddie about if he leaves they will be eternal enemies. So why does Freddie leave? Why didn’t he take the slow boat with Dodd?

sami wrote:
Yes, that scene is amazing. It caught me by surprise too. First there is not intimacy between them two so it comes as a shock ! I think again it shows how the one controlling Dodd is Peggy. She doesn't seem to be interested in him sexually. She masturbates him as she could be peeling a carrot. She would just needs to add: "you asshole" afterwards. Its a bit strange altogether !

I don’t recall the dialogue they had in the bathroom which led to Peggy peeling Dodd’s carrot Laugh but the Cause involves not having sex during pregnancy because it can lead to psychological problems in life so masturbation, mutual or otherwise, was perhaps usual in their marriage? I wondered at first if Peggy wanted to do it for her own pleasure as much as her husband’s – she was saying something like “do it/this for me” – or if she did it because she knew her husband wanted it. Then, I wondered if, hearing him come, she’d never heard him like that with her before, and that’s why she had the reaction she did. That maybe she knew he wasn’t really involved with her during the whole act. And like you said earlier, it shows that Dodd had an animal side to him – that he wasn’t made of stone. Whatever, I agree that it’s a strange scene but PTA must have had a purpose in putting it there. Do you have any thoughts on this scene, Admin? From a male perspective.

sami wrote:
It seems like he is happy and free. Somehow, relieved of his burden?

What do you think Freddie’s burden was?
He’s trying the Cause technique on the English girl, isn’t he? What’s your name? Don’t blink, etc. But whereas with Dodd the technique had been… controlling? This scene with the girl felt like it was something else. Can’t think of the right word. I was thinking of the scene with Freddie and Peggy where she’s asking him to change the colour of her eyes and she asks him to place something in the future for himself. Is this what he placed there perhaps?

sami wrote:
Yes, Im sorry about that. I did realise afterwards that I was imposing my own standards by statng it wasn't erotic. There is not a right way when it comes to this , everybody is a different "animal" Laugh

No need to be sorry, Sami: I was meaning the universal ‘you’ rather than you in particular. It’s a huge subject….and I’m no expert. Like you, I can only really say what I consider to be erotic.







Offline sami  
#18 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2012 11:30:40 AM(UTC)
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admin wrote:
Sami,

"Dodd taking a piss was disgusting ." - I must have missed this part? When did that happen?


Admin, When Freddie and Dodd are arrested and they are side to side in jail and they start arguing . Freddie is out of control and Dodd starts giving a speech and after it he pees in the cell toilet. U can't see it but u can hear it because there aren't walls . Do u remember ?

Edited by user Sunday, November 18, 2012 1:07:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline sami  
#19 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2012 11:53:18 AM(UTC)
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joy wrote:
I wonder if Peggy felt threatened by Freddie & Dodd’s relationship? That somehow it would undermine her? In this scene you mention, Dodd says somethingo Freddie about if he leaves they will be eternal enemies. So why does Freddie leave? Why didn’t he take the slow boat with Dodd?


You're right, Peggie never liked Freddie. It could be what u say or that she was afraid that he would be a bad influence for Dodd. She kinda sees Dodd as a weak person. So she's actually the strong hand .
Freddie leaves because Dodd only will accept him if he accepts the premises of the Cause. Freddie isn't willing to do that even though he loves them as his family. That's why he cries so much , the pain.
The movie got to me a bit in this sense . I've done the same before . I've tried to mold myself to fit in others people's ideas just to be l
Loved. It has always ended badly. This is why I understand Freddie.
What's nice is what John and Yoko had. He said in an interview : " Yoko couldn't rock and I couldn't avantgarde so we decided that what we had in common was love, and from love followed peace." In it nice ?

sami wrote:
Yes, that scene is amazing. It caught me by surprise too. First there is not intimacy between them two so it comes as a shock ! I think again it shows how the one controlling Dodd is Peggy. She dosdesn't seem to be interested in him sexually. She masturbates him as she could be peeling a carrot. She would just needs to add: "you asshole" afterwards. Its a bit strange altogether !

joy wrote:
I don’t recall the dialogue they had in the bathroom which led to Peggy peeling Dodd’s carrot Laugh but the Cause involves not having sex during pregnancy because it can lead to psychological problems in life so masturbation, mutual or otherwise, was perhaps usual in their marriage? I wondered at first if Peggy wanted to do it for her own pleasure as much as her husband’s – she was saying something like “do it/this for me” – or if she did it because she knew her husband wanted it. Then, I wondered if, hearing him come, she’d never heard him like that with her before, and that’s why she had the reaction she did. That maybe she knew he wasn’t really involved with her during the whole act. And like you said earlier, it shows that Dodd had an animal side to him – that he wasn’t made of stone. Whatever, I agree that it’s a strange scene but PTA must have had a purpose in putting it there.

Those are nice comments Joy. I need to think about it ..


joy wrote:
Do you have any thoughts on this scene, Admin? From a male perspective.


Joy, I don't think u intended this, but it's a bit funny . I imagine Admin going : err ... Laugh

sami wrote:
It seems like he is happy and free. Somehow, relieved of his burden?

joy wrote:
What do you think Freddie’s burden was?

Why do I ask me this question ? I just can see he is relieved, that's all I can tell !

joy wrote:
He’s trying the Cause technique on the English girl, isn’t he? What’s your name? Don’t blink, etc. But whereas with Dodd the technique had been… controlling? This scene with the girl felt like it was something else. Can’t think of the right word.


Playful ?

Edited by user Sunday, November 18, 2012 1:58:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline joy  
#20 Posted : Monday, November 19, 2012 8:26:17 AM(UTC)
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sami wrote:
Freddie leaves because Dodd only will accept him if he accepts the premises of the Cause. Freddie isn't willing to do that even though he loves them as his family. That's why he cries so much , the pain.

Yes, I thought it was that. They didn't want him just for being himself.

sami wrote:
What's nice is what John and Yoko had. He said in an interview : " Yoko couldn't rock and I couldn't avantgarde so we decided that what we had in common was love, and from love followed peace." In it nice ?

Yes it is. Smile

joy wrote:
Do you have any thoughts on this scene, Admin? From a male perspective.

sami wrote:
Joy, I don't think u intended this, but it's a bit funny . I imagine Admin going : err ... Laugh

Laugh Sorry Admin. I couldn't resist.

joy wrote:
He’s trying the Cause technique on the English girl, isn’t he? What’s your name? Don’t blink, etc. But whereas with Dodd the technique had been… controlling? This scene with the girl felt like it was something else. Can’t think of the right word.

sami wrote:
Playful ?

Yes, that's a good word. Smile
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